Here Be Dragons | Discussion Post 2 | to Chapter 38

Here Be Dragons (Welsh Princes #1) by Sharon Kay Penman

Thirteenth-century Wales is a divided country, ever at the mercy of England's ruthless, power-hungry King John. Then Llewelyn, Prince of North Wales, secures an uneasy truce with England by marrying the English king's beloved, illegitimate daughter, Joanna. Reluctant to wed her father's bitter enemy, Joanna slowly grows to love her charismatic and courageous husband who dreams of uniting Wales. But as John's attentions turn again and again to subduing Wales--and Llewelyn--Joanna must decide to which of these powerful men she owes her loyalty and love.

A sweeping novel of power and passion, loyalty and lives, this is the book that began the trilogy that includes FALLS THE SHADOW and THE RECKONING. 

  We discussed Chapter 1 through Chapter 16 here last week .. next week we will have our final discussion post where you can link your reviews, but now we are discussing anything including chapter 37.

Feel free to answer any and all discussion points below.. as well as asking your own questions in the comments, and anyone can jump in at any time.

Joanna matures and the marriage to Llewellyn becomes fruitful. What are your feelings of Llewelyn's eldest son, Gruffydd?

Joanna's brother Richard is a supporter of both Joanna and King John. Did you sense a divide inevitably occurring, and how did you judge Joanna's reaction?


The mystery of Arthur comes to a tense point with the de Braose family! What do you think of the actions of
King John against the family?

At the end of Chapter 25, King John states that the marriage he arranged for his daughter Joanna with Llewellyn was "a great mistake." What do you think he was fearing? Was he fearing for Joanna's well-being, or fearing a fight against her husband?

Davydd and Gruffydd's relationship has been strained from the start. Do you feel any empathy towards Gruffydd and his jealousy of his younger brother? Do you feel Joanna should have spoken with Llewellyn regarding Gruffydd's attitude towards the Norman English?

Here Be Dragons | Discussion 1 | Chapter 1-16

Here Be Dragons (Welsh Princes #1) by Sharon Kay Penman

Thirteenth-century Wales is a divided country, ever at the mercy of England's ruthless, power-hungry King John. Then Llewelyn, Prince of North Wales, secures an uneasy truce with England by marrying the English king's beloved, illegitimate daughter, Joanna. Reluctant to wed her father's bitter enemy, Joanna slowly grows to love her charismatic and courageous husband who dreams of uniting Wales. But as John's attentions turn again and again to subduing Wales--and Llewelyn--Joanna must decide to which of these powerful men she owes her loyalty and love.

A sweeping novel of power and passion, loyalty and lives, this is the book that began the trilogy that includes FALLS THE SHADOW and THE RECKONING.  



Discuss Chapter 1 through Chapter 16 here.. next discussion will be available on October 26, which will discuss through Chapter 37.

Feel free to answer any and all discussion points below.. as well as asking your own questions in the comments, and since some of us are not such fast readers... jump in when you get caught up!!

How did you feel when you saw how Richard the Lionheart was spoken of as homosexual? Could you imagine this portrayal occurring in writings created in 2012?

What are your first impressions of Llewellyn, and did they change by the time you reached the end of Chapter 16?

Do you enjoy the romance of Llewellyn and Joanna, or do you think there was too much focus on it and would prefer more of a telling of the battles and the details of the factions?

King John is so easily detestable in other reads, how did you like this portrayal of him as a father and a provider?

What do you think of the fate of Arthur, Duke of Brittany? Do you think Joanna is naive in her outlook?

Do you have a favorite character picked yet? Is there a character that you would rather see more or less of? Character you wouldn't mind seeing locked in a dungeon (Maude!)?

Could you sense a hero emerging, and who would that be?

Have you read similar era novels that you would recommend as companion reading? Elizabeth Chadwick's William Marshal novels are ones I would suggest for a greater grasp on some of the many characters in Here Be Dragons. Have you read any Welsh-based novels that you could recommend?

Here Be Dragons Kick Off!

Here Be Dragons (Welsh Princes #1) by Sharon Kay Penman is the focus for our read along!

Thirteenth-century Wales is a divided country, ever at the mercy of England's ruthless, power-hungry King John. Then Llewelyn, Prince of North Wales, secures an uneasy truce with England by marrying the English king's beloved, illegitimate daughter, Joanna. Reluctant to wed her father's bitter enemy, Joanna slowly grows to love her charismatic and courageous husband who dreams of uniting Wales. But as John's attentions turn again and again to subduing Wales--and Llewelyn--Joanna must decide to which of these powerful men she owes her loyalty and love.

A sweeping novel of power and passion, loyalty and lives, this is the book that began the trilogy that includes FALLS THE SHADOW and THE RECKONING.  


Start your engines!! We will have our first discussion post available on Friday, October 19!!

We will discuss everything that falls between chapter one and chapter 16.

You might want to make small notes as you read so you can add them to the comments during the discussion!
See you next week!

ANNOUNCING THE NEXT READ ALONG WITH DETAILS!

Here Be Dragons (Welsh Princes #1) by Sharon Kay Penman is the winner of our poll for the next read along!

Thirteenth-century Wales is a divided country, ever at the mercy of England's ruthless, power-hungry King John. Then Llewelyn, Prince of North Wales, secures an uneasy truce with England by marrying the English king's beloved, illegitimate daughter, Joanna. Reluctant to wed her father's bitter enemy, Joanna slowly grows to love her charismatic and courageous husband who dreams of uniting Wales. But as John's attentions turn again and again to subduing Wales--and Llewelyn--Joanna must decide to which of these powerful men she owes her loyalty and love.


A sweeping novel of power and passion, loyalty and lives, this is the book that began the trilogy that includes FALLS THE SHADOW and THE RECKONING.  
Visit Sharon Kay Penman's site for a more detailed description here.

Based on the all the fabulous reviews on Goodreads, this is going to be an exciting historical read, and I hope you will join us! First published in 1985, some of you may have read it, and we still welcome you during our discussion posts here at HF-Connection later in October, and maybe even you'll be eager for a re-read?   This is a chunky book at around 700 pages, so it will take a little longer for some of us, but I was hoping for around two weeks, which is an average of 50 pages every day. But a fellow read along participant suggested stretching it to three weeks in case things come up for some of us.

There are no clear divisions in the text such as 'Parts' so I am just going by Chapter count.

The tentative schedule:
10/13/2012 START YOUR ENGINES!! Be sure to have your copy by this date, so you can start reading.
10/19/2012 Friday: First Discussion post goes up. Try to read up to around Chapter 17, which is page 212 in my edition (shown above).
10/26/2012 Friday: Second Discussion post goes up. Try to read up to around Chapter 37, which is page 453 in my edition.
11/2/2012 Friday: Final Discussion post goes up. This last third of the book will have a few more pages, but perhaps we'll all be racing to the finish and be able to finish about the same time here.

The posts will go up as scheduled, and if you have to catch up and come back later to the post to comment that is fine. There are no rules, but of course we would like to maintain a conversation online about the chapters we hopefully all have just read! And those who have read the book can read again, or comment along, just taking care to not spoil the parts we have not gotten to. Spoilers for what we are scheduled to have read are allowed of course.

I will make another post closer to the Read Along, just to double check who will be reading along and as a reminder to everyone. At this point, you should order your copy of Here Be Dragons so you can participate! Who's on board?

Join Us for a Wolf Hall Read-a-Long

I am hosting a Wolf Hall Read-a-Long at my main book blog, The True Book Addict.  My co-host is Kai at Fiction State of Mind.  The read-a-long will run from August 4 - September 15.  You can find out all the details by visiting the sign-up post HERE.  I hope you will join us!

Part 4: The Queen's Vow FINAL Discussion Post

(Click for Read Along Schedule)
Part I's Discussion Post
Part II's Discussion Post
Part III's Discussion Post


Part IV: The Fallen Kingdom 1481-1492

Final Thoughts:


As I write 1492 as the end of Part IV.. is that where it ends? 1492? It is a year that is entrenched in our heads as the year of Cristobal Colon sailed the ocean blue.. and here we are finally at the conclusion of The Queen's Vow.


We do meet Cristobal Colon aka Columbus, and all his saucy ways as he introduces himself to Isabella. Isabella is portrayed as being very interested in exploring the world unknown. Does Isabella see World Domination in her future as she gazes at Colon?

Also in this part, Isabella is a target of assassination. One wonders what would have become of the Inquisition if the attempt succeeded? Would Fernando have taken up the banner and continued his fight against the Moors and Jewish?

Did you feel that the decision to conquer the Moors was a good one, considering the financial state of both Castile and Aragon, and the Cortes' reluctance to borrow heavily from the Jewish citizens?


Isabella is willing to send prisoners to slavery, only to be ransomed for money to be released. Yet another sad state of the times connected to Isabella is the slavery issue. I can appreciate how Gortner is adding these small details so that we can discern for ourselves the character of Isabella, especially when he is making sure he doesn't paint her in an all too positive light.

One can't help but wonder how Isabella would feel knowing that her daughter Catherine was divorced by Henry VIII but that her grand-daughter Mary had the same zealous religious intolerance as Isabella.

If you've read The Last Queen, do you have any thoughts on the scene between Juana and her grandmother? Juana, in general, is given a lively, stubborn personality in this book and a loving relationship with her father; do you feel it plays up well to the author's novel on her life?

From previous comments during this read-along, it is apparent that we all have different perspectives and reading tastes. Did you find the political maneuverings, the religious strife or Isabella's personal life the most pleasing to read?

Throughout the story, which characters have been your favorites?

How do you interpret the title, The Queen's Vow? What was Isabella's vow, and did she carry it out to your expectations?

What are your final thoughts? Please feel free to post your review links if you are a blogger as well as continue our discussion on Part 4 and on the novel as a whole.

You can read Michelle's review here.
You can read Marie's review here.
You can read Arleigh's review Monday. ;)


AND...Drum roll, please!

Arleigh offered a special giveaway, and it's time to announce our winner:

Christina!

CONGRATULATIONS!

Please put your email address in the comments so we can discuss shipment!

Thank you so much for participating, this was a lot of fun!


If you are itching for another read along Michelle is co-hosting a read along of Wolf Hall, posts will be held at other blogs.. see the details here.

Till next time...

Part 3: The Queen's Vow Discussion Post

(Click for Read Along Schedule)

Part III: The Double-edged Sword 1474-1480 (pages 219-299)

This section opens up with Isabella finally obtaining the crown of Castile. Her husband is away, and Isabella goes through the motions of becoming Queen without Fernando at her side. This does not bode well when he returns from Aragon, as we see Fernando green with envy, or angry at her advisers, or upset that Isabella is not a whimpering female willing to wait for Fernando's approval.

As we turn the pages, we see Isabella grow confident and struggle less with major decisions, and although she adores Fernando, she also adores Castile. If she had to choose, who will she choose? The same could be said for Fernando: if he had to choose Aragon over Isabella, what would his choice be?

The apparition-like figure in white makes an appearance when Isabella is crowned..is she hallucinating? Is she touched by God? It can only be a sign of things to come. And we learn Fernando is not faithful to Isabella, how has this changed your view of him? Several of our readers here had expressed a liking for him, is that still the case?

After reading the Tudor novels featuring Catherine of Aragon, Isabella's daughter, we have had visions of Isabella in our heads of the fearless warrior of Isabella fighting the moors and birthing her many babies. Part III does indeed have Isabella running off into the middle of conflict. Does this telling change your previous views of Isabella, and of her marriage?

What if the first person narrative was taken away and Gortner used a third person perspective? Do you think there would be more depth to the story if Gortner had that ability?

"Would I never be satisfied by the efforts of anyone, most of all my own self?"


In her own words, Isabella laments over her self expectations and those she sometimes irrationally sets to others. Do you feel this is a failure of hers, or does it make her a stronger monarch?

Isabella felt a shift in her marriage after the stand-still with Portugal. Do you feel her relationship with Fernado changed after this event?

What is your opinion of Carrillo? Were you disappointed with him, or did you see his perfidy coming?

As the story shifted from gaining the throne and subduing the nobles to church reform, were you surprised to find Isabella so lax toward the Jewish community and loath to bring upheaval to her newly won subjects?

Heirs, printing presses and eclipses...what was your favorite surprise from this part of the story?

For those who have read The Last Queen, what did you think of the (prophetic?) birth of Juana? (my favorite scene).

The section ends with the beginning of the Spanish Inquisition. Were you surprised at Isabella's reluctance (as I was), and Fernando's support of the religious purging?

~~

Now that we've read three parts of Gortner's novel, we need to begin to gather our final thoughts for the discussion post this Saturday. We have all been applauding Gortner's writing, the story, our awe for the characters. Let's get deeper, and see if we can find something that irked us. Was there anything in the story that bothered you? Was there anything missing? Is there something you would have preferred to be explored deeper? Which 'Part' was your favorite? Save those final thoughts for Saturday! And get your reviews ready, you can post your review links on the final discussion post as well.

Part 2: The Queen's Vow Discussion Post

(Click for Read Along Schedule)

Part Two covers "An Unforbidden Union", years 1468-1474 and from pages 129 through 215.

It is indeed a new chapter for Isabella. Being initially third in line to the throne of Castile, and then set aside for her half-brother's heirs, Isabella had no real reason to believe she would ever have to rule over Castile. As we conclude Part 1, Isabella laments that "Castile had lost its hope."

Our discussion of Part 1 contemplates the legitimacy of Enrique's daughter, Enrique's kingship, and the fate of Alfonso.

Continuing the reading with Part 2, Isabella reflects, and realizes her duty to Castile, which conflicts with her brother's Enrique's wishes. The political upheaval is rampant, as sides are forced to be taken. And this is when Isabella's story really begins to shape and take hold of the reader.

How has your opinion of Isabella evolved during the novel thus far? As Isabella slowly realizes that her destiny is to unite Castile and Aragon, has this depiction of Isabella created more of a likable character for you? It certainly has for me.

At the end of Part 2 we have Torquemada guiding Isabella and I get the distinct feeling that things are going to be changing....

What are the parts of Part 2 that you enjoyed the most? Are you having difficulty slowing the pace to match the read along? I specifically stopped reading the book a few days earlier so that I could stay with the read along schedule. I am looking forward to picking it back up so I can see what Part 3 has in store for us!

Part 1: The Queen's Vow Discussion Post

(Click for Read Along Schedule)

Have you read Part 1 of The Queen's Vow? If so... what are your thoughts? If you have not completed Part 1, you can still participate today by sharing your initial impressions (and expectations) of both Isabella and the book itself.

And for comparison, have you read other works featuring Isabella?
What were your impressions of Isabella before you began reading the book? Do you think your opinion of her may change?

What of the relationships of the family of Isabella? Between Alfonso and Isabella, between Enrique and Isabella?

What about Enrique and Juana of Portugal, and their daughter? Do you question the legitimacy?

Did you find anything lacking in the storytelling of Part 1? Something you wanted to read a little more about? I remember reading of Isabella's mother (and her mental stability); and also a previous read showed Isabella as feeling destined to marry Ferdinand from an early age so this telling was a little different.

Marie's thoughts:
For the most part, I have viewed Isabella as an over-zealous religious fanatic because of the persecution she perpetrated. There was no tolerance on her part, but the times were so different during her reign. The level of piety was directly related to how she lived (and salvation at death), so a certain amount of understanding of many factors needs to be developed before laying judgement on Isabella.

I had previously read Castile for Isabella by Jean Plaidy, and By Fire, By Water by Mitchell James Kaplan. These novels have helped shape my opinion of Isabella, but now Gortner's will help to humanize her a bit more as it gives me some understanding behind Isabella's nature.

Michelle's thoughts:
I too read By Fire, By Water and that book portrayed Isabella in a very bad light, which was to be expected based on the point of view it was told from...the very people Isabella persecutes with her expulsion of the Jews.

I have read the entire book already because I was on a book tour for it, but I will stick to the first section to go along with the read-along.  I found it fascinating that it seems all (or most) of the great queens seem to find their way to the throne having gone through great peril.  Isabella lived a very precarious period under her half brother, Enrique, while her brother was forming a rebellion.  In the book, her loyal companion likens it to divine providence that things continue to go in Isabella's favor.  Perhaps it's true.  What Gortner does so well is bringing across the human side of these great women.  One can't help but feel a connection with Isabella.

What I found ironic was the fact that Isabella and Fernando end up naming one of their daughters, Juana.  I realize that Fernando's mother's name was also Juana, but to use the name of her stepmother, Enrique's dreadful queen, seemed odd.  And yes, I do question the legitimacy of Juana and Enrique's daughter, although I have not read very much in regards to the history of this subject.

I do hope that you're enjoying this wonderful book!

********

The next discussion post: July 14, Saturday.
Scheduled to Read to page 215 (end of part II)

Gortner's writing style always makes me breeze through his works, so don't feel guilty if you read ahead (like me!). Just jot down some notes so you'll have them ready for the scheduled discussion posts.

Don't forget, the author C.W. Gortner will be visiting the discussion posts at his leisure, so feel free to ask any questions you may have in the comments. There will also be a small giveaway at the end of the read along for the most active participant.

The Queen's Vow Read-Along Schedule

The Queen's Vow: A Novel Of Isabella Of Castile

By C.W. Gortner

The Read Along at HF-Connection for July has been announced, and we welcome anyone with thoughts on the book to read along and comment on the posts when they get a chance.

The Schedule:

Kick off Reading day is July 7th, 2012

July 10: Page 128 (end of part I) First discussion post

July 14: Page 215 (end of part II) Second discussion post

July 17: Page 299 (end of part III) Third discussion post

July 21: Page 382 (end of part IV) Fourth discussion post 

Wrap up post will follow shortly after, which is where readers can link up their reviews if they would like, and the giveaway winner will be announced. 

The schedule follows the "parts" divided within the novel, and the discussion posts will post in the mornings of Tuesday and Saturday and you can discuss anything you would like from the novel up to those parts in the schedule, whenever you get to those parts.

There will be spoiler warnings in the post for those that have not reached the reading point in the schedule.

Feel free to invite your friends, and you may use the following image to link to if you would like to announce the read-along on your blog or just link to it in your sidebar.

Arleigh of Historical-Fiction.com is also generously sponsoring a giveaway of a special item from one of her very favorite online retailers, tartx:

This pocket mirror features our main protagonist Isabella of Castile, and it will be awarded to one of our most active participants in the USA. Visit tartx to see all of the fabulous items for sale there.

 We will also invite you to ask questions of the author of The Queen's Vow, C.W. Gortner, as he will stop by and address your comments during the read along!

Hope to see you there!

Announcing the next Read-Along





 Grab a copy of C.W. Gortner's The Queen's Vow: A Novel Of Isabella Of Castile, which is available now..

We will start our read along officially on July 7th, so this should give you plenty of time to purchase the book online and have it shipped to you, or go find it at your local bookstore if you are so lucky to have one!

If not, Here are some links to buy the novel:

Amazon
IndieBound
Barnes and Noble


Plot description for The Queen's Vow: A Novel Of Isabella Of Castile:

No one believed I was destined for greatness.


So begins Isabella’s story, in this evocative, vividly imagined novel about one of history’s most famous and controversial queens—the warrior who united a fractured country, the champion of the faith whose reign gave rise to the Inquisition, and the visionary who sent Columbus to discover a New World. Acclaimed author C. W. Gortner envisages the turbulent early years of a woman whose mythic rise to power would go on to transform a monarchy, a nation, and the world.

Young Isabella is barely a teenager when she and her brother are taken from their mother’s home to live under the watchful eye of their half-brother, King Enrique, and his sultry, conniving queen. There, Isabella is thrust into danger when she becomes an unwitting pawn in a plot to dethrone Enrique. Suspected of treason and held captive, she treads a perilous path, torn between loyalties, until at age seventeen she suddenly finds herself heiress of Castile, the largest kingdom in Spain. Plunged into a deadly conflict to secure her crown, she is determined to wed the one man she loves yet who is forbidden to her—Fernando, prince of Aragon.


As they unite their two realms under “one crown, one country, one faith,” Isabella and Fernando face an impoverished Spain beset by enemies. With the future of her throne at stake, Isabella resists the zealous demands of the inquisitor Torquemada even as she is seduced by the dreams of an enigmatic navigator named Columbus. But when the Moors of the southern domain of Granada declare war, a violent, treacherous battle against an ancient adversary erupts, one that will test all of Isabella’s resolve, her courage, and her tenacious belief in her destiny.

From the glorious palaces of Segovia to the battlefields of Granada and the intrigue-laden gardens of Seville, The Queen’s Vow sweeps us into the tumultuous forging of a nation and the complex, fascinating heart of the woman who overcame all odds to become Isabella of Castile.
 
Be sure to follow HF-Connection on Twitter and Facebook so you can get reminders of the event and follow along. (There is also an email subscription available through the sidebar link).
 
We will have the discussions in a Chapter format where you can comment right here on the blog, so you can stop in at any time as you read along. This one is half the size of our last read along, so we won't need as many weeks.. and from prior experience Gortner's reads are page turners...
 
Are you joining in? We'd love to have you!

(Here's the post to the schedule)

Read-A-Long Wrap Up Forever Amber by Kathleen Winsor

Welcome to the Wrap Up Discussion Post for HF-Connection's first Read-A-Long! If you didn't officially sign up for the read-a-long, you are still welcome to chime in with your thoughts. The original post with the schedule can be found here.**

IF you were able to follow the schedule, you should have finished the chunky novel by now. So no holds barred.. go forth with spewing your thoughts!!

Obviously there can be spoilers now, so if you have not finished reading this, please go back to the previous discussion posts to find where you fit with your reading schedule.

I did want to take a moment to thank all of you who tried to keep up with the read-a-long... we appreciate the participation very much. I do understand a hectic schedule, so if you haven't finished by now please just remember to come back here to comment with your thoughts or with the link to your blog. I saw one post from another blogger with her thoughts of Forever Amber at Fiction State of Mind, which you can read here.

Marie's Thoughts:
I finished! I posted a review on my blog a few days ago, which can be found here. Overall, I am very happy I carved so much time out of my busy reading and reviewing schedule to fit this huge novel in. I was told that the pages would go by fast, that I should not be daunted by the page count of this one.. and they were right. I was almost as obsessed with Forever Amber as much as Amber was obsessed with Bruce Carlton. ALMOST!! I did get annoyed with Amber, with her shallowness and her lack of dimension. I had to force myself to get over her flawed character traits over and over again, and simply focus on the overall storyline of the magnificent Restoration era.

The amount of supporting characters that came in and out of Amber's life were so intriguing.. the nurses who came to 'help' during Bruce's illness.. one being pushed out of a window... I was rolling with evil laughter at some points. My goodness, what a tale this author spun! The Count who tried to poison Amber, and instead ended up killing his son.. and then Amber killing the Count... what madness!

I read how some readers were really annoyed at how similar the theme was to the classic Gone With The Wind. Were you put off by this resemblance? It really didn't matter to me, but it did cross my mind, especially during the heated conversations between Bruce and Amber. It was glaringly similar at those moments, but I was easily able to move on and not let that bother me.

Michelle's Thoughts:
Unfortunately, I'm not finished with the book yet.  I've been sick for a week and sleeping has been more my forte lately than reading.  I will finish this weekend and come back and post my final thoughts.

Week Three: Forever Amber Read-a-Long

Welcome to the Discussion Post for HF-Connection's first Read-A-Long! If you didn't officially sign up for the read-a-long, you are still welcome to chime in with your thoughts. The original post with the schedule can be found here.**

Week Three (April 1 - 7)--Part V through Chapter 69 (end)


Week Four (April 8 - 14)--A week for catch-up and final thoughts

ALERT!!

SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER

Marie's thoughts: In reading through part V of the book currently, there doesn't seem to be as much excitement for me as the first half.. there are only so many times Amber can get a man and use and abuse him. The fact that Amber is still shallow and self-centered, therefore without any dimension at all... it just gets old. Which is why there is more focus on the other themes of the book: political unrest, Barbara Palmer, the Duke of Buckingham.
I would have like to see Amber show a heart, such as when she was nursing Bruce Carlton (but was that only for her own benefit anyway?). She has two children that are so in the background, and I kept wishing she would go back to her roots and find her Aunt and Uncle, and perhaps learn a little something about her parentage.

Michelle's thoughts:  I am still behind.  I was on vacation last week...visiting family in Michigan and I thought I would have more time to read to get caught up, but that wasn't the case.  I should have known. I'll try to finish it this weekend and post my thoughts in the comments.

How is everyone else doing?  Don't forget, this week is for catching up, if you're behind, and we will post final thoughts next weekend.

Forever Amber Week Two Discussion Read A Long

Welcome to the Discussion Post for HF-Connection's first Read-A-Long! If you didn't officially sign up for the read-a-long, you are still welcome to chime in with your thoughts. The original post with the schedule can be found here.**

ALERT!!

SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER

Marie's thoughts:
This week, we were to read through Part 5... But I misread it and thought we were only to read up to Part 5.. so I only finished Part 4. Ooops... not doing so hot over here..
I can say that I did get to a point where I was ready to quit altogether, simply for the fact that Amber is so unlikable and without morals. I had to focus on the actual historic plot to get myself back into the groove of enjoying it. Amber finds herself a respectable gentleman.. and I could not BELIEVE what happened to that respectable gentleman.. (Well, he wasn't totally gentle)..
The story line is sometimes so far-fetched, and unrealistic.. but it is still good reading in a sensational kind of way.
What do you think?

Michelle's thoughts:
Not any thoughts as of today since I'm dreadfully behind.  I will get caught up and comment later in the week.

Hope everyone is enjoying the book!

Reminder:  I had to change the schedule (only slightly) so if you haven't already, please visit the link Marie posted above to check it out.  Thanks!

Week One: Forever Amber Read-A-Long

Welcome to the Discussion Post for HF-Connection's first Read-A-Long! If you didn't officially sign up for the read-a-long, you are still welcome to chime in with your thoughts. The original post with the schedule can be found here.**


**There has been a slight change in the reading schedule.  Please refer to the original post (link above) to view the change.  It was a necessary change due to the structure of the book.  I do apologize for any inconvenience.

This week, we were to read through Chapter 23 in whatever edition you are reading. What edition are you reading?

Please know that this post is for discussing whatever you like regarding the first twenty-three chapters. If you have not read that far.. don't read this post any further! Hopefully this chunky novel is delightfully sinful enough so that you can manage the tight reading schedule.

ALERT!!

SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER

Marie's thoughts:
Oh Amber!! and oh.. why did it take me so long to read this?? I am in love with the setting, with the drama of Amber and her silly, naive decisions... even though she acts like such a horribly spoilt little girl, I can't help but root for her. And even though I kept having the recurring thought, 'Bruce Carlton, how could you?', I knew that Amber was warned. Yep. She dove in head first and we knew what was coming, didn't we? (Just like her mama Judith.. impetuous disastrous actions on both their parts!) And the earrings she treasured.. of course they were fake! Silly little chit.


Luke Channrell the Scoundrel! What a snake! What an abyss Amber found herself in when she met Sally Goodman the Swindler. Poor Amber. I would've loved to see Amber go back home to Sarah, how bad could it have been? She just would've proved everyone right and she could've found herself a farm to live on once Matthew had her married off. Why couldn't she just see the light?


Black Jack seemed like an answer to a prayer, and again Amber saw him only as a means to an end. What end, though? What did she actually hope for? Because then came along Captain Morgan.. and what a waste. I know understand why some say I hate Bruce Carlton!


As far as the story goes, I have not felt so in tune to a storyline like this in a while.. I love epic/saga material and this is perfect for that. Sometimes we shy away from chunksters because our brain balks at the sheer size of it. But look at how awesome this story is.. and how you cannot wait to get back to reading.. and how I am going to be sad when it actually is over.
I am enjoying the point of view where it's not only all about Amber, but the views from Charles as well which breaks it up a bit.


Michelle's thoughts:
I'm just coming off an all night reading session.  Yes, I'm crazy that way.  So my thoughts this week are going to be somewhat brief.  Most likely I will expand on them whilst responding in the comments to other readers' thoughts.


The first thing I noticed about the book is how it immediately drew me in from the first page.  I could immediately tell that this is a book that I will long to return to and, as Marie said, I will be sad when it comes to an end.


Dare I make the comparison between Amber and Scarlett O'Hara?  As I was reading, I couldn't help but make the connection.  Maybe it's because I've been reading Gone with the Wind, but Amber has some of that very same impetuous nature that Scarlett possesses.  Of course, I do not feel that Scarlett is anywhere near as naive as Amber, but I do notice some similarities.  I did find myself wondering if Scarlett would have allowed herself to get into the situations Amber does.  Did Scarlett avoid the predicaments because she was too smart to compromise herself?  Or was it that the men in her story were too chivalrous to take advantage of her impetuous nature?  I am thinking that it is more the former of the two.  In Amber's case, she is so naive, and coupled with her tendency toward impetuous behavior, it's a dangerous combination.


The parallels between Amber and her mother are also striking.  Being a child who never knew her mother, it's amazing how similar the mindset is.  Judith 'loved' John from a very early age, but I feel that it was more of a crush.  Then, when she is told she can't marry him, it's like forbidden fruit for her and then they make love during that brief visit, she is willing to risk everything to be with him.  I'm of the opinion that when two people engage in intimate relations, there is such a connection between them that makes them feel they are in love.  However, I'm of the mindset that love is the lasting bond between two people.  Once the flame of passion dies down, there is still the bond of love underneath.  In Judith and Amber's case, they associate passion with love and Amber continues to make disastrous mistakes because of it.  And it's how she justifies her behavior.


I can see why this book was considered so scandalous in the 1940s.  If you put yourself in the mindset of the 40s, the provocative nature of this book would have been shocking.   


I'm reading the 1944 cloth bound edition.  The print is tiny and is printed on the pages in two columns, much like a newspaper article.  Ah, but I love old books!

Now it's your turn to share....

See you here next Saturday for Week Two (March 25 - 31)--Chapter 24 through Chapter 47  {Revised: Part III through Part V, which starts at Ch. 46 (stop reading at end of Ch. 45)}

Forever Amber Read-a-Long...starts today!

Don't forget to start reading today for the Forever Amber Read-a-Long.  Our first discussion will be posted here on the blog next Saturday, March 24.  Your first time hearing of this?  Check out all the details and the reading schedule by clicking the image above or HERE.

Looking forward to reading along with you!

Michelle and Marie

Join Us for the Forever Amber Read-a-Long

*Revised reading schedule...see below

Announcing the Forever Amber Read-a-Long.
Marie and I have been wanting to read this famous historical novel by Kathleen Winsor for years and when Marie mentioned that she was finally going to read it this year, I told her I would join her.  And so, the read-a-long was born!

About the book (from Goodreads):
Abandoned pregnant and penniless on the teeming streets of London, 16-year-old Amber St. Clare manages, by using her wits, beauty, and courage, to climb to the highest position a woman could achieve in Restoration England—that of favorite mistress of the Merry Monarch, Charles II. From whores and highwaymen to courtiers and noblemen, from events such as the Great Plague and the Fire of London to the intimate passions of ordinary—and extraordinary—men and women, Amber experiences it all. But throughout her trials and escapades, she remains, in her heart, true to the one man she really loves, the one man she can never have. Frequently compared to Gone with the Wind, Forever Amber is the other great historical romance, outselling every other American novel of the 1940s—despite being banned in Boston for its sheer sexiness. A book to read and reread, this edition brings back to print an unforgettable romance and a timeless masterpiece.

Dates:  Sunday, March 18, 2012 - Saturday, April 14, 2012

Details:

• Start reading on Sundays, discussion post will be posted on Saturdays.
• You can do a post and leave your link in the comments, or you can just post your thoughts in the comments of the week's discussion post.
• The last week, April 8 -14,  will be for catch-up readers and final thoughts.

*Reading schedule has been slightly revised.  I didn't realize that the book had parts, which would probably make for more natural breaks in the reading.  If you have read a bit ahead of the new stopping points because of the previous schedule, don't worry.  It's only a couple chapters difference.  I hope you will forgive me the mishap.  ~Michelle


Reading schedule:

• Week One (March 18 - 24)--Prologue through Part III, which starts at Ch. 22 (stop reading at end of Ch. 21) 
• Week Two (March 25 - 31)--Part III through Part V, which starts at Ch. 46 (stop reading at end of Ch. 45)
• Week Three (April 1 - 7)--Part V through Chapter 69 (end)
• Week Four (April 8 - 14)--A week for catch-up and final thoughts

If you would like to join us, please leave a comment below.  We certainly would love to have you with us in the reading of this classic historical novel.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask in the comments or email us at hfconnection@yahoo.com.